connvict

My buddy has a bare SH block that has been sleeved, he's offered it to me, but my car is a base model.

Will there be any problems swapping the bare blocks? AXles? ANything?

ChrisRicketts

you have to have the atts unit and sh tranny as well. you can't use a base tranny with an sh block.......have him send me the block. How much does he want?

ChrisRicketts

oh yea, axles are different too.

connvict

we'll see what he says tomorrow

ChrisRicketts

sounds good. does he want an unbuilt one in exchange for a cheaper price?

Gerhard_001

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ChrisRicketts &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you have to have the atts unit and sh tranny as well. you can't use a base tranny with an sh block.......have him send me the block. How much does he want?</TD></TR></TABLE>


Wrong, yes you can. You would need to fab a bracket on the carrier bearing to bolt it to the block and obtain an intermediate shaft. Not as difficult as most people think it is.

PirateMcFred

My 4th gen Lude with SH H22 is fine without Atts. I love my fab'ed bracket. good for 5000 miles and counting.

It is the other way around maybe. SH tranny on a base block. I am pretty sure you will have to fab a **** load of stuff to get that to work.

Pirate

ChrisRicketts

yea, i realize you can fab a bracket, or plate, but i personally have never seen one, and no one has ever been able to explain or show me pictures of the process, so i always figured the best way to go is just all base. then you aren't rigging stuff up. i'm not saying it isn't good......i'm just saying i think it would be easier to get all base stuff. as for now, i've got a disabled ATTS hanging off my block.

PirateMcFred

I would hardly call it 'rigged' but here is a pic for your viewing pleasure:



Pirate

ChrisRicketts

wow, i had no idea it was that simple. i've never taken the atts unit off, so i figured it was actually bolted to the block or tranny, but now it seems pretty simple. thanks for the pic.

connvict

ok, just give me the bottom line then.......

Do I take the block and use it with my base model head, axles, int shaft, and tranny or not???
What else besides the bracket needs to be fabbed?

Mike

PirateMcFred

The adapter and some slight modding of the Int. shaft will be necessary. I had to extend my oil pressure sensor wire about 3 inches and I had to cut a nub off of my intake manifold to fit my oversized oil filter but stock will probably be fine. Everything else should work with no problem. Cool?

Pirate

ChrisRicketts

it looks like that bracket was specifically engineered for the purpose that it is serving right now. what is it off of and where can you get them? and what did you have to mod on the intermediate shaft?

when you change the driveshafts to stronger ones, won't that just make the intermediate shaft the weak link?

PirateMcFred

well to reply I will have to continue this Hyjack, sorry Convict but it does kind of pertain to your plan to use the SH block without ATTS...

That plate is specifically engineered for that purpose. I engineered it for that purpose. It is not off of anything. I can make another if someone wants but I need the shaft too to make it fit. I have mine bolted together but it could be welded too.

About reliability, it has withstood hard launches and track days and 160ft/lbs of torque for 5000 miles so I think that it is not the weak link. Another user: clendaniel did something similar on his boosted SH (much more torque) and he has no problems either.

Pirate

connvict

dont worry about hijacking, I appreciate the input.
Still wondering though, you said something about modifying that intermediate shaft..... Can you elaborate?

DR

If you have a preludeonline account Marcucci did a write up on this with my car and also has an Autocad .DWG of the plate.
http://www.preludeonline.com/s...47883

flyrod

can anyone cut/paste that thread here?

ChrisRicketts

Here's the post from PreludeOnline.com.........hope no one gets mad.

First, the basic problem is that the SH has mounting holes for the ATTS unit and removing it requires installation of the base intermediate shaft... which it has no provision for. Here is the base block:



Note the 3 holes in the upside-down "L" pattern.

Now the SH:



The circled hole was a "blank" boss that I drilled and tapped to add another mounting point for the plate. The problem with the hole patterns is multiple. First, the holes aren't in the right place. You need to "make" these holes by making a plate to cover the existing SH/ATTS holes, then drill that to accept the intermediate shaft. Second, the bosses on the SH are 1/4" closer to the block than the base (they need to be built out 1/4" for the shaft to line up correctly). This is handy since you can buy steel plate in 1/4" thickness. The last problem is that the upper-left mounting tab on the intermediate shaft interferes with one of the ATTS bolt holes... meaning, if you use that hole on one you can't use it on both.

To fix that problem help insure that the shaft doesn't move and is secure, you need to cut and relocate that tab on the intermediate shaft. Ian cut the ear off and welded it in place in the new location, having one bolt go through the shaft and plate and into the block. The other two go directly into the plate (but not the block). He then used the other hole in the SH block to hold the plate down. You can see his setup here:



And in the thread posted above...

I was doing this operation on an ITS racecar that is putting down in the ballpark of 200WHP and gobs of torque... with race rubber and an LSD and final drive (in the new base tranny). I wanted something a little more beefy. This was my solution:




I had to file down the "blank" boss (circled in the picture above) and drill and tap it, but it resulted in another mounting hole for the plate. On top of that, instead of relocating the cut tab on the intermediate shaft, I just welded on a piece of steel onto the side and drilled holes to line up with the two mounting points on the SH block... so two bolts go through the intermediate shaft and the adapter into the block. I think this provides a considerable amount of rigidity to the intermediate shaft and an additional safety margin.

For anyone that's interested, here's an Autocad .DWG of the plate:

http://www.marcuccimotorsports...e.dwg

and some pics of the plate and intermediate shaft work:






Note that instead of welding on nuts on the back of the adapter (to mount the shaft) like Ian did, I welded on a piece of steel flat and just tapped them both. I ground down the bottom of it (where it is shiny) to keep from interfering with the block. There is only I think about .3" of clearance between the plate and the block on the lower bolt hole, so you don't have much room to work with.

All said and done this was a LOT of work. I couldn't find anyone that had taken measurements, and the SH block was still in the car (making prototyping difficult). I came up with the dimensions by measuring the block and prototyping in Lexan.

The dimensions in the drawing are only approximate... I would recommend enlarging the holes some to allow for proper fit. If anyone wants to take more accurate measurements and provide them, I'll be glad to update the drawing.

connvict

Sweeeeeeeeet................

Cuz I decided to go with the SH block (sorry Ricketts).......

ChrisRicketts

hehe........no prob man. i'll probably just end up buying a base block/tranny to build up so i don't have to go through all the trouble. i don't have a machine shop in my backyard so i don't know how i would even go about having something like that made, without it costing an arm and a leg. good luck.