Part 2: MFactory LSD review
09-25-2008, 10:47 PM
#1
Part 2: MFactory LSD review
View part 1 here https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2380842
This is a brief how to and a review of the MFactory LSD.
Remove transmisson from vehicle. Place transmission on its side with a block of wood under one edge. Some oil will drain out once you have the transmission on its side soak up with oil dry.
Remove transmission housing bolts.
Remove set bolts. Ball bearings can be removed by tilting transmission.
Remove reverse idler gear shaft bolt.
Remove 32mm sealing plug and spread snap ring.
Pry case open and the snap ring will close itself once it clears the countershaft bearing.
Transmission case removed.
Remove shift piece shaft, shift piece, and change holder assembly. Third bolt for change holder assembly can be accessed with shift piece removed.
Remove reverse idler gear shaft and reverse idler gear. Remove gear stacks and shift forks. Remove transmission housing axle seal.
This is the differential shim located in the transmission housing.
Install differential in clutch housing. Easiest to do it without the ring gear bolted on. Bolt transmission housing on, I use 6 bolts during this step. Do not use sealant. With feeler gauges, measure differential shim clearance. If there is not clearance and diff will not spin, replace stock shim with a smaller shim then check clearance.
There is where you are checking the clearance at (where feeler gauges are). Between the bottom of the shim and the top of the differential bearing. Ignore the appendage on the LSD, that is my cell phone holding it up.
To figure out which shim you need to order follow the Helms manual.
Lets say you came up with a clearance of .010". If you want to put it in the midrange of the tolerance (.002") you need to add .008" onto the shim. Your stock shim should have the clearanced etched on it. If it has worn off, measure the shim (I always go by the measurement versus the etching). As an example your stock shim is 1mm (.0394"). Closest you can get to that is with a 1.2mm (.0472") shim which brings your clearance to .0022". Right in the midrange of the tolerance.
Install the ring gear on the differential. For B series, torque bolts to 74.5 lb-ft. Remember they are reverse threaded so left = tight, right = loose.
Reassemble the transmission. (note: mainshaft tab is not correctly aligned in this picture).
Fill transmission with 2.4qts of fluid and go have fun.
Review on it right now is limited. First impressions are no more one wheel peels (obviously). Turn in was greatly affected. Able to push the car more now on turn in without understeering. Silent operation. I'll post a more thorough review this weekend after I am able to drive the car hard. I've sent the link for this thread to the owner of the car so he can post his review of it.
Edit: Just received a PM asking about runout on the MFactory diff. Runout on this diff was under .001". Couldn't get a repeatable reading in the .000X" range so I rounded up. Compare this to .023" and .011" on the last two OBX's I've had. I'll measure the Quaifes runout as soon as I receive the replacement from Autotech.
Modified by Aquafina at 3:03 AM 9/26/2008
This is a brief how to and a review of the MFactory LSD.
Remove transmisson from vehicle. Place transmission on its side with a block of wood under one edge. Some oil will drain out once you have the transmission on its side soak up with oil dry.
Remove transmission housing bolts.
Remove set bolts. Ball bearings can be removed by tilting transmission.
Remove reverse idler gear shaft bolt.
Remove 32mm sealing plug and spread snap ring.
Pry case open and the snap ring will close itself once it clears the countershaft bearing.
Transmission case removed.
Remove shift piece shaft, shift piece, and change holder assembly. Third bolt for change holder assembly can be accessed with shift piece removed.
Remove reverse idler gear shaft and reverse idler gear. Remove gear stacks and shift forks. Remove transmission housing axle seal.
This is the differential shim located in the transmission housing.
Install differential in clutch housing. Easiest to do it without the ring gear bolted on. Bolt transmission housing on, I use 6 bolts during this step. Do not use sealant. With feeler gauges, measure differential shim clearance. If there is not clearance and diff will not spin, replace stock shim with a smaller shim then check clearance.
There is where you are checking the clearance at (where feeler gauges are). Between the bottom of the shim and the top of the differential bearing. Ignore the appendage on the LSD, that is my cell phone holding it up.
To figure out which shim you need to order follow the Helms manual.
Lets say you came up with a clearance of .010". If you want to put it in the midrange of the tolerance (.002") you need to add .008" onto the shim. Your stock shim should have the clearanced etched on it. If it has worn off, measure the shim (I always go by the measurement versus the etching). As an example your stock shim is 1mm (.0394"). Closest you can get to that is with a 1.2mm (.0472") shim which brings your clearance to .0022". Right in the midrange of the tolerance.
Install the ring gear on the differential. For B series, torque bolts to 74.5 lb-ft. Remember they are reverse threaded so left = tight, right = loose.
Reassemble the transmission. (note: mainshaft tab is not correctly aligned in this picture).
Fill transmission with 2.4qts of fluid and go have fun.
Review on it right now is limited. First impressions are no more one wheel peels (obviously). Turn in was greatly affected. Able to push the car more now on turn in without understeering. Silent operation. I'll post a more thorough review this weekend after I am able to drive the car hard. I've sent the link for this thread to the owner of the car so he can post his review of it.
Edit: Just received a PM asking about runout on the MFactory diff. Runout on this diff was under .001". Couldn't get a repeatable reading in the .000X" range so I rounded up. Compare this to .023" and .011" on the last two OBX's I've had. I'll measure the Quaifes runout as soon as I receive the replacement from Autotech.
Modified by Aquafina at 3:03 AM 9/26/2008
09-26-2008, 12:34 PM
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Re: (Aquafina)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Aquafina »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Don't really like the idea. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Why?
If you have access to a surface grinder, why not. Or if its out a couple thou, 800 grit and a surface plate does wonders.
Why?
If you have access to a surface grinder, why not. Or if its out a couple thou, 800 grit and a surface plate does wonders.
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10-03-2008, 11:30 AM
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Re: thoughts and review
hey Chris,
sorry it took me so long to get this review up
but like you said earlier, my car's handling has greatly improved. I'm now able to power through curves rather than having to mash the brake before the apex.
looking back, i wish i had the extra cash to replace 1st and 2nd (as well as the counter/main shafts) just so the transition from 2nd to 3rd would be a little less drastic, but there is no problem when it comes to hard-shifting, its quick and precise. its only when I'm casually shifting that i feel the jump.
all and all, i couldn't be happier. the tranny is strong and smooth, and I'm frequently reminded of that when I'm doing 60 down the highway at 4000 rpm
my props go to Chris for the build and to MFactory for the quality products.
sorry it took me so long to get this review up
but like you said earlier, my car's handling has greatly improved. I'm now able to power through curves rather than having to mash the brake before the apex.
looking back, i wish i had the extra cash to replace 1st and 2nd (as well as the counter/main shafts) just so the transition from 2nd to 3rd would be a little less drastic, but there is no problem when it comes to hard-shifting, its quick and precise. its only when I'm casually shifting that i feel the jump.
all and all, i couldn't be happier. the tranny is strong and smooth, and I'm frequently reminded of that when I'm doing 60 down the highway at 4000 rpm
my props go to Chris for the build and to MFactory for the quality products.
10-15-2008, 12:48 PM
#18
Coming out of hiding?
Top bearing flange w/o bearing. I measure at the bottom, middle, and top. Top and bottom measurements I just use as a reference more or less. Middle is what I go by.
With diff out of trans I measure it at the ring gear flange.
Top bearing flange w/o bearing. I measure at the bottom, middle, and top. Top and bottom measurements I just use as a reference more or less. Middle is what I go by.
With diff out of trans I measure it at the ring gear flange.
10-19-2008, 08:01 PM
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Re: Part 2: MFactory LSD review (Aquafina)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Aquafina »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Evans tuning video shows you the basics of how its done, but his methods should not be followed. LSD install how to will come with part 2. </TD></TR></TABLE>
you wrote that in the "how to field strip" the OBX as if your way was better than his, and a more in-depth tutorial was to come via THIS thread. i found that video (Evans Tuning) to be way more informational than this thread, as far as the "how-to" is concerned.
...don't get me wrong, i know where i stand and i'm not talking ****, i guess i was just hoping for more from this thread.
and you know...i just can't help but feel your information is so biased that i can't even consider it. i understand "you have to pay to play," and "you get what you pay for," but all of this anti-OBX rhetoric is frustrating.
you wrote that in the "how to field strip" the OBX as if your way was better than his, and a more in-depth tutorial was to come via THIS thread. i found that video (Evans Tuning) to be way more informational than this thread, as far as the "how-to" is concerned.
...don't get me wrong, i know where i stand and i'm not talking ****, i guess i was just hoping for more from this thread.
and you know...i just can't help but feel your information is so biased that i can't even consider it. i understand "you have to pay to play," and "you get what you pay for," but all of this anti-OBX rhetoric is frustrating.
10-19-2008, 08:23 PM
#21
How much more in depth do you want to be to with shimming a diff? Put diff in case, bolt case, measure between bearing and shim. There's not much to it.
This anti-OBX rhetoric won't be frustrating once you see how crappy they are first hand. I'm anti OBX because they are plain and simply crap, I'm against Quaife (through Autotech) due to their crap customer service and against their new distributor as they cranked up the price on them for no reason.
Feel free to purchase an MFactory LSD and OBX LSD so you can compare them side by side. All you have to do is hold each and shake them, all you'll get is silence from the MFactory. I didn't even get that with Quaife.
This anti-OBX rhetoric won't be frustrating once you see how crappy they are first hand. I'm anti OBX because they are plain and simply crap, I'm against Quaife (through Autotech) due to their crap customer service and against their new distributor as they cranked up the price on them for no reason.
Feel free to purchase an MFactory LSD and OBX LSD so you can compare them side by side. All you have to do is hold each and shake them, all you'll get is silence from the MFactory. I didn't even get that with Quaife.
10-19-2008, 09:18 PM
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Re: (Aquafina)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Aquafina »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How much more in depth do you want to be to with shimming a diff? </TD></TR></TABLE>
yeah but you said "LSD install how to will come with part 2." not how to "shim the diff..." right...?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Aquafina »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Feel free to purchase an MFactory LSD and OBX LSD so you can compare them side by side.</TD></TR></TABLE>
i already have an OBX waiting to be installed. i could barely afford THAT one, let alone whatever MFactory puts out. having said that... 1. i have to give it up to OBX for putting an affordable LSD out there so that we ALL can play... OR 2. (probably where you're coming from) if i can barely afford the CRAP LSD, then i shouldn't be playing the LSD game to begin with.
if my OBX ends up working out fine, then i'll side with #1. if it fails, explodes, leakes, wobbles, whatever...i guess i'm forced to side with #2.
i just love how everybody says "Feel free to purchase an MFactory LSD and OBX LSD," or "throw out your OBX and buy a Quaife," as if we're all made of money. those of us who bought OBXs, did so for a reason right...the affordability.
i guess where i'm coming from is always gonna be considered a #2 POV (even to me), so maybe i should just consider painting little army men as a hobby because of what my income is, and give up playing with cars.
yeah but you said "LSD install how to will come with part 2." not how to "shim the diff..." right...?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Aquafina »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Feel free to purchase an MFactory LSD and OBX LSD so you can compare them side by side.</TD></TR></TABLE>
i already have an OBX waiting to be installed. i could barely afford THAT one, let alone whatever MFactory puts out. having said that... 1. i have to give it up to OBX for putting an affordable LSD out there so that we ALL can play... OR 2. (probably where you're coming from) if i can barely afford the CRAP LSD, then i shouldn't be playing the LSD game to begin with.
if my OBX ends up working out fine, then i'll side with #1. if it fails, explodes, leakes, wobbles, whatever...i guess i'm forced to side with #2.
i just love how everybody says "Feel free to purchase an MFactory LSD and OBX LSD," or "throw out your OBX and buy a Quaife," as if we're all made of money. those of us who bought OBXs, did so for a reason right...the affordability.
i guess where i'm coming from is always gonna be considered a #2 POV (even to me), so maybe i should just consider painting little army men as a hobby because of what my income is, and give up playing with cars.
10-19-2008, 11:04 PM
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Re: (FOUR-G)
I value the info.
Buying stuff that is not made correctly is expensive. more expensive than getting a good part the first time
Installing/shimming a diff is one of thoes things that is probably easier than most of us think, we just dont do it often. i watched a friend of mine bring out a box of parts , within 20 minutes had assembled a trans!!! And its still working to this day . I like it when someone can explain things in a simple way
jt
Buying stuff that is not made correctly is expensive. more expensive than getting a good part the first time
Installing/shimming a diff is one of thoes things that is probably easier than most of us think, we just dont do it often. i watched a friend of mine bring out a box of parts , within 20 minutes had assembled a trans!!! And its still working to this day . I like it when someone can explain things in a simple way
jt
10-20-2008, 08:33 AM
#24
Not knocking you fourg, but when half of the last 4 OBX's I've had have excessive runout, there is something wrong. Not to mention crap finishing (bearing flanges, ring gear bolt head interference with diff housing, etc).
All there is to installing an LSD is shimming it and checking runout. I left out the runout as it would be easy for someone to screw up who doesn't do this everyday, and it is not necessary with the MFactory LSD as it is the OBX.
All there is to installing an LSD is shimming it and checking runout. I left out the runout as it would be easy for someone to screw up who doesn't do this everyday, and it is not necessary with the MFactory LSD as it is the OBX.
10-20-2008, 09:04 AM
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Re: Part 2: MFactory LSD review (Aquafina)
the shims can be ordered from Honda?
great write-up
really appreciate the info
i think i tore a shim out of my diff. recently with a pretty catastrophic axle failure. i've been talking with Bense about the possibility of more extensive damage to the diff. Guess i'll be re-shimming soon if the diff. is still in good condition. i have a Cusco diff. currently.. i don't trust it. very noisy differential --- i'll be purchasing an MFactory LSD as soon as financially feasible.
great write-up
really appreciate the infoi think i tore a shim out of my diff. recently with a pretty catastrophic axle failure. i've been talking with Bense about the possibility of more extensive damage to the diff. Guess i'll be re-shimming soon if the diff. is still in good condition. i have a Cusco diff. currently.. i don't trust it. very noisy differential --- i'll be purchasing an MFactory LSD as soon as financially feasible.
